Interview with Robert Steve Wright
Transcription:
Vernon Fleming 00:01
So good afternoon and this is a video recording for the Freedom of Choice Remembrance Project. The date is Wednesday, February 17 2021. And I'm talking with Mr. Robert Steve Wright, who was a member of the inaugural class that integrated Louisa County High School in 1965. So welcome.
Robert Wright 00:27
Thank you.
Vernon Fleming 00:28
And what I want to do is kind of talk with you about your experiences back in 1965, and integrating Louisa County High School, but first I want to start with what was the forces that led you to make that decision to attend Louisa County High School?
Robert Wright 00:45
Well, they had asked for volunteers, and-
Vernon Fleming 00:49
Who were they?
Robert Wright 00:52
I would say probably the PTA at the Black schools. And to be honest, I don't really know. I would say probably Mr. Thompson might have been part of it because I know his daughter-
Vernon Fleming 01:09
Mr. John Thomasson?
Robert Wright 01:10
Yeah. And so as I mentioned to you later on the telephone, earlier in our telephone conversation my nephew, William Mason.
Vernon Fleming 01:22
Yeah.
Robert Wright 01:23
The son of Earlena Mason and we were both born on the same day, but I would always let him push me into things. He was coming so he encouraged me to come over with him. And so I did.
Vernon Fleming 01:36
Okay.
Robert Wright 01:37
But it wasn't like... I think some people thought that the smartest of the groups, or, you know, the smart ones came over, but that wasn't the case. I was not a smart person. I just came over.
Vernon Fleming 01:53
I know that's true.
Robert Wright 01:57
But it's almost like my experience in the army. You know, some of it you might not have enjoyed, but after it's over you're glad you went through it. But I don't feel like it was really... When you consider some of the other southern states, some of the other things, I don't feel like it was that bad, even though we did have a few negative issues, but it could have been worse.
Vernon Fleming 02:25
Okay, now think back to that first day. Did you ride the bus to school? Or?
Robert Wright 02:29
Yes, I rode the bus. William used to tease me about that. He said when I was standing in the hall waiting on, you know, instructions on where we should go and waiting on him. And he said that when he came in I had a pencil in my mouth that I had chewed it up because I was scared. You know, he would always like to make a joke about everything.
Vernon Fleming 02:57
So did you get on the bus early on the route or lter on route and did you have a problem getting a seat?
Robert Wright 03:05
The bus that I rode- the way it was for me. It was one bus, the lady's name was Miss Hawkins. And she would pick me up in the house then come right here to this elementary school and then I would transfer over on to another bus to go down to the high school. I don't remember that drivers name. Now on that bus, Miss Hawkins', I was the only Black. And on that second bus, Margie Lucas was someone there with us. And I hope Margie doesn't get mad with me, but she was so light I couldn't even (overlapping) I found a spot with her (unclear)
Vernon Fleming 03:49
She was here this morning.
Robert Wright 03:51
Yeah.
Vernon Fleming 03:53
So as far as seating, you always had a seat, you didn't have any problems with others?
Robert Wright 03:59
Not on my bus.
Vernon Fleming 04:00
Okay.
Robert Wright 04:00
Not on my bus.
Vernon Fleming 04:02
Would whites sit beside you?
Robert Wright 04:04
Yeah, occasionally. The only thing, on that one of the buses is that occasionally somebody would throw spit ball at you. Because they would be behind me. But you know, I'm 71 years old now and when I look back kids will be kids, you know, so it was no big deal. At least it was anything but a spit ball, or a piece of paper.
Vernon Fleming 04:29
Now that first day when you got to the school and I know you had been in Richardson for your eighth, ninth, tenth grade years. What was the big difference that you saw between entering Richardson on the first day of school versus Louisa County High School.
Robert Wright 04:46
One of the things is in Richardson you you had to run and hide in the bathroom or somewhere to take a smoke, but they had a designated spot for the guys in Louisa, where you could go out and smoke. And of course, they didn't let- It was weird, they wouldn't let the girl smoke, but they would let the guys. It was a special area of where we could go and smoke. Some of the other things that I noticed that, for instance, I never had to do a book report at Richardson, that was sort of new. I remember Mrs. Layman, bless her heart, we had to memorize the Gettysburg Address. And but what she did, I guess she felt like we might be nervous or some so she would let us come to the class early to recite it, but...
Vernon Fleming 05:51
Meaning?
Robert Wright 05:53
Well see William and I, we pretty much all of our classes we stuck together.
Vernon Fleming 05:56
Okay.
Robert Wright 05:58
William was in literature or English, but she allowed us to come early to give our... Another thing about back then, I don't know if they still have it, I guess it's in the libraries. We had to read this book, you remember Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn? And it had the n-word in it and it looked like she really hated that sentence, or that word was in there. But you know, it was nothing she could do, but she was a real nice lady I thought, Mrs. Lehmann.
Vernon Fleming 06:33
I remember her well.
Robert Wright 06:34
Oh, you remember her?
Vernon Fleming 06:34
Well she was our neighbor in my community. So going back to that first day, probably 90% of school was white, did you feel intimidated at all?
Robert Wright 06:53
Not really. I just looked around, and nobody bothered me and I guess they would glance at me, but I'm thinking that they probably the whites were prepared for it. And they probably had been advised on how to handle themselves also because nobody gave us any trouble on that first day.
Vernon Fleming 07:23
So you shared all your classes with William Mason.
Robert Wright 07:26
Yep. Yes.
Vernon Fleming 07:28
And what about Margie and Joe Morris, were also classmates or in the same year group (overlapping)
Robert Wright 07:35
I remember Joe, being in the French class with me. I think this is in our senior year. Ah, I can't remember if Margie was in anything with me or not. And Joe and I were on the basketball team in our junior year and Joe was more or less first string. And I made the first string good by being on the second.
Vernon Fleming 08:03
Before, we’ll talk about basketball in just a moment; we're trying to at least touch on a few things, and I had a thought that left me, that happens a lot these days. So we talked about the bus ride, we talked about your kind of first day, first impression of the school. As far as being a junior, and when folks make decisions career wise. Did you recall any conversation with a school counselor about your post graduation plans or taking college SATs?
Robert Wright 08:40
I don't recall but I believe it was Mrs. Martin, the principal's wife. And I don't remember her discussing anything, but I do remember after I graduated and came back from the army, a lady by the name of, a teacher, Miss Woodward. She was connected with the Woodward funeral home, and she gave me some advice as far as you know, going to college and everything. But as far as couseling, I can't remember receiving any direct counseling. I think I mentioned to you earlier. I took academic courses like biology, chemistry. I didn't need those courses. But I was following my buddy William, my nephew. I really should have taken you know, commercial courses. But anyway, we made it through in some kind of way.
Vernon Fleming 09:44
Do any students stand out to you that you would deem friendly back then, like white students.
Robert Wright 09:53
Okay, yeah. Some of the names that jumped out at me is like Dwight Rigsby, Steve Montgomery.
Vernon Fleming 10:03
What did they do that made you feel that they were friendly?
Robert Wright 10:07
Well, you know, they would just have conversation with us. And also, Clyde Johnson, he passed away, I went to his family gathering about a year ago. But those three come to my mind. And, of course, back in those days, you had to kind of be careful how friendly you were with the females. Because that wasn't accepted. Of course you see it all the time nowadays, but back then you had to watch yourself in the way you handle yourself around white females, but no, I remember like, they were nice, like Pam Henderson. Well, let's see-
Vernon Fleming 11:01
Dr. Richardson now.
Robert Wright 11:02
Yeah, she was really nice. At the last reunion we had I mentioned to her I hated it, because if she hadn't been so smart, getting these hundreds, I probably could have got a curve on some of that. But she was really nice.
Vernon Fleming 11:22
Okay. On the other spectrum, do you have any memories of anyone being not friendly?
Robert Wright 11:32
I didn't take it- I know several guys like teasing, especially when they were around others trying to be funny, they would use the n-word. Do you want me to give names or just...
Vernon Fleming 11:50
Whatever you're comfortable with.
Robert Wright 11:50
But, you know, I played with them, even though while I kid back with them like that. One was a fella by the name of Dennis McDonnell. And it was several of them who would just throw that word out at you. And but again, it was nothing that we would get to fighting over or anything like that. It was just one of those things.
Vernon Fleming
Now, you mentioned Mrs. Layman was kind of friendly towards you and sensitive to your situation. What about any other teachers that you say did some things that made you feel more comfortable?
Robert Wright
Don't know, this might have been my senior year, but it was a teacher there whose name was Colonel Phillips that taught algebra. And he told me one time it was like, you want to show that white man that you can excel. I mean, now he's white, but he's telling me to prove that I can excel. My mind goes back to that I thought that was, you know, real good advice from him. Because there were times when I would act unruly. He was trying to encourage me about my studies and so forth. And he just say, you need to show that white man what you can do.
Vernon Fleming 13:17
Any teachers that you felt we're not treating you fairly?
Robert Wright 13:26
For the most part, I do remember one instance in French class. I think, I know she did. Her name was Mrs. Keller. And we were taking the test and I think one of the kids told her that I was cheating. And so she came over and actually did lift up my papers because she thought I had, we used to called the “pony”, but I didn't have it, or have one. I don't hold that against her because she was just probably being influenced by what somebody else had told her.
Vernon Fleming 14:07
During unstructured time, lunchbreak, study hall, were you able to sit with other folks or whites or interact with him during that call it unstructured time.
Robert Wright 14:21
Most of the time William and I, and some of the others, we would pretty much in the cafeterias have our own little gatherings at the tables, and we didn't do that much intermingling at lunch. But when we would go outside to smoke then you know we would intermingle with conversation. Matter of fact, sometimes I would bum a cigarette off a white, but basically in study hall, again, we stuck together.
Vernon Fleming 15:00
Do you have any recollections of any administrators? Mr. Martin, the principal, any other teachers approaching you, asking you if you're okay or had any issues or need any help with anything?
Robert Wright 15:11
Well, Mr. Martin, he tried to help me one time. I remember reporting to him that I was kind of thinking someone had let the air out of my tire in my car, my brother's car, but it really didn't have to be that. But, he was concerned about that issue. I don't know if you're going to get to this later on, and I remember one time I did upset him. This was the time when I told you about I hit the man, the guy, young man.
Vernon Fleming 15:51
Tell us again about it.
Robert Wright 15:54
William, he had a rough time on his bus. I think it was the Gordonsville bus. And you know, the kids wouldn't let him sit down and he would somewhat receive harassment. So one day, I decided to, I had Russell King and Charles, this was the second year….
Vernon Fleming 16:16
Yeah.
Robert Wright 16:17
And we rode the bus with William and everything was quiet. So I said, "William, where are all these people that's been given you these problems," you know. And nobody said anything, so when we got off the bus, that's when everybody started mouthing, some of them. And I kind of walked back towards the bus and the guy got back up on the bus they took off. And so after that, they made a rule that you couldn't ride any other bus, you had to ride your own bus. So that's the way that was taken care. But also, William had complained about a guy giving him trouble on that bus, so I hauled off one morning, you know, you would meet in the gym, I mean, in the auditorium before the classes start. And I hit a guy. And William went and told me was the wrong guy. But Coach Smith, he came in and got me and took me to Mr. Martin. And I got suspended. And mama had to come back with me to get me back in and so Mr. Martin said, "I don't know what the hell Robert think's he is doing." My sisters used to laugh at me because my older sister, Earlena, she came with Mama to get me back in so we got on track. But you know, again, Mr. Martin was really a nice guy. But I think that, you know, he's probably under pressure to because they had to make sure that we were treated right. As well, as he didn't want, I guess, to fight parents on his case, either. But, so he was probably in between, sort of like under pressure himself. But overall, he was a nice guy.
Vernon Fleming 18:13
So how long were you out of school?
Robert Wright 18:15
Just one day.
Vernon Fleming 18:16
Okay, not bad. But it was the wrong guy.
Robert Wright 18:19
Wrong guy.
Vernon Fleming 18:21
Okay.
Robert Wright 18:22
You know how they had, and I'm not sure, I think I told you I was going to look it up some day, I tried to find it. But you know how the seniors would have a will and this so and so leaves his so and so. And they said Robert Wright leaves a switchblade to whatever that guy’s name was.
Vernon Fleming 18:38
I want to shift gears slightly from when you entered the school to at least your two years at the school, did you feel that you were equal to the whites? And looking at two ways, both from an intellectual standpoint (unclear) not have been the smartest, but do you feel that you were able to compete intellectually and also from an economic standpoint, do you feel that your family's economic means were comparable to the average white student?
Robert Wright 19:13
No, not economically, because one thing my father passed away a week before President Kennedy was assassinated. So my mother had to raise me and those were some rough times for us. And my father did farm work and the people that he worked for, didn't take out social security for him. And I guess it was his fault, too, because he should have probably pursued that. So as a kid, after my father passed, I was 14, I never got a check like other kids from whose parents had passed on like that. So economically, I wasn't. Now, on the other hand, even when I was at Richardson, I was not a great student. Studying was not my thing. Basically, I loved basketball with a passion and I needed someone to just tell me "Hey, you're short, you're not going to make any basketball team". And even if they had told me, I don't think I would have received it. So I didn't give a lot of attention to books and studying. So I look back on it, it wasn't that I wasn't able, I didn't have the brains. It's just that I didn't apply myself at either school like I should have.
Vernon Fleming 20:40
So during your junior year, senior year when you're at Richardson, you'd be going to homecoming dance, prom and parties on Friday nights. Now when you went to Louisa, those were still going on, but did you have a desire to attend any of those with your white classmates?
Robert Wright 21:00
Yes, we went. In the junior and senior year, we went to the proms. And for a while there was some talk I think, as a matter of fact, that's one of the things that William told me that one of the guys on his bus said we can't have a prom because you guys are here. But they did have the prom and we did go. But I guess that for a while they were debating as to whether they would have a prom because of our attendance. But we did have a prom and William I went to both of them.
Vernon Fleming 21:32
Okay, what about homecoming dances? And what about like Friday night dances?
Robert Wright 21:36
I never did attend any of those. I didn't even try to.
Vernon Fleming 21:40
Why not?
Robert Wright 21:43
One thing I wasn't a dancer, I guess. At that stage, too, on Fridays on weekends, a lot of times I had other things to do. So I never really tried to go to a homecoming dance or any of that.
Vernon Fleming 21:58
Okay, do you think you would have been welcomed? Or would you have been able to go if you had a desire to?
Robert Wright 22:04
I think that some would have maybe been okay with it. But I do think that you know, when you're out like that you would have certain groups that would have probably tried to start some issues. Because I remember, this was at the farmer's fair one year. I'm trying to think if I was still in high school, but I remember a bunch of young whites and I could call one of the names now, they were walking around singing the Old Rugged Cross, and you knew what that was about, even though it was a religious song but you know why they were singing that. So, you had groups that, or a group that would probably give you some problems along those lines had I been out, so I guess in some instance I'm glad I didn't try to go to any of these things alone.
Vernon Fleming 23:03
Now were you involved with any school clubs or any extracurricular activities at Richardson whether it be newspaper, yearbook staff, Future Farmers of America, any of those activities? And I'm leading up to did you join anything at Louisa County High School, if so, or not, why not?
Robert Wright 23:27
No, I did not. The only thing I did, like I said I mentioned the basketball team, I went out for the football team one year, but they practice during the summer and I hadn't attended so the coach didn't feel like it would have been fair to the other players for me to just get on the team and they had worked hard that summer. And I understood that. Also, and getting back to basketball, I couldn't understand in our junior year why they made us wait. We had to wait about two or three months before we could play or participate and that that was kinda weird-
Vernon Fleming 24:22
Was there any explanation given?
Robert Wright 24:25
I didn't ask for one. I do remember was Steve, and I don't want to take anything away from Steve Montgomery, he was a nice guy. But he had transferred from Richmond and he got to play right away. I think we asked him about it but he didn't know either, if he knew he didn't want to deal with it. But I don't think he really knew. But then again he probably did like we did figure, but they made us wait.
Vernon Fleming 24:53
Okay, now looking at basketball, as you went to other schools did you encounter any issues?
Robert Wright 25:01
Yes.
Vernon Fleming 25:01
Playing at other schools? Share those with us. Okay. Any other remembrances that you had, good or bad, on the team?
Robert Wright 25:03
Yeah, it was Fluvanna High School, and me and one of the guys on the team, white guys, Andy Woolfolk, we went out and when we came back in somebody in the crowd said, "Hey, they got a nigger with them." And I just kept walking there. So Coach Woolfolk, he said, "Robert, did they give you a hard-" he just laughed, "Did they give you a hard time out there, Robert?" But of course, you know, I wasn't gonna go up in the crowd at an away game and mess with anybody and try to defend myself on that. And it really didn't bother me. Well, it wasn't a racial type thing, but it was an embarrassing thing. We had Powhatan beaten, and the coach put the second string in and we blew it, we let them come back and win the game. That was embarrassing to me. But you know, it had nothing to do with any type of racial problem, just one of those things when we blew the game.
Vernon Fleming 26:27
As you entered the Louisa County High School, granted you left friends at Richardson, as you encountered them, both students or adults, did any of them make comments about you attending Louisa County High School and what were the comments?
Robert Wright 26:44
Some of them seem to be somewhat resentful. On occasion, I remember one time, because for Louisa, sometimes the guys would wear a necktie to the games. And then, so on that particular night, I went, after we finished the duties, I went over to Richardson and I still had the tie on and somebody just said something about that. But you know, it's my necktie, it's my shirt, leave me alone. But it wasn't a lot of resentment. But yes, a few things you might just remember from time to time as you go back in your mind about it.
Vernon Fleming 27:33
Can you think of adults in the community, be it in the church or others, anyone ever asked about your experiences that first and second year?
Robert Wright 27:43
I don't remember that. I don't think they did. Now that you mentioned. Interesting. Looking back, did you ever have any doubts about staying after that first year? Did you ever think about going back to Richardson? I did not. I wanted to stick with it. Now, I shared this with you, because of the harassment that we had received, I remember after he passed, and also, before his mother passed I used to... My home was over in the Ellisville area, but I would go down 208 and my sister lived on one of those streets off 208 and I would stop by and holler at her. And we were chatting about William, because William had some health issues. And a lot of people didn't realize it, but William was on medication for his mentality. And she felt like that William could have had that problem because of some of the things that he faced on that bus. And she told me that out of her own mouth that William told her, he asked her could he go back to Richardson, but she encouraged him to hang in there. But at one time it got so bad for him he wanted to go back.
Vernon Fleming
And going through that, being in Louisa County High School, being a minority, extreme minority. How do you think that impacted your life for the better or for worse, having experienced that integration?
Robert Wright
I think it was a good thing because after I got out the army, of course in the army, a Sergeant will say all of you are green. But when I got out of the army, I got this job later on at State Farm. Well, it was a white environment, predominantly. And being in that mixed school, you know, in the midst of the school, like you said, with, I guess, 90 to 99% predominantly white, at State Farm it sort of helped me to deal with things that we had to go through there. So I'm glad I did it. And I believe it did help me.
Vernon Fleming 30:21
Okay. Do you have much contact with white classmates now?
Robert Wright 30:28
Very little. We have had several class reunions, and I think I attended each one of them and attended some of them and it was just good seeing everybody and nobody seemed to be, you know, we just... How you doing? And that was it. Yeah. And several of them I said the grace and said the prayer also.
Vernon Fleming 31:01
Good. Is there anything that you would like to share that I didn't ask because I know, we didn't want to cover too much ground, but we want to make sure we capture stuff that's important to you.
Robert Wright 31:13
Well, one of the things, and I remember making the statement at my church to some of the Black kids to remind them don't take your education lightly. I mean, when you think about the things like what we did, and others before and you go to school and act like a clown and act silly, you know. You need to take advantage of what you have and the opportunities. Because the same white guy that you laugh at, had his plaid pants laid on, he's gonna be loaning you money, you know what I'm saying? So you need to, and at the Black high school, the teachers, they were more concerned about you, but some of the white teachers, they might want to push you along and encourage you. So you need to think about what you're doing. Also, as I mentioned with my opening statement, when you really look at it I think that it was not a real bad experience when we compare to what the kids went through in Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia, so I'm just thankful to the Lord. If I had to go do it again, I would.
Vernon Fleming 32:41
Would you behave differently, would you do things differently?
Robert Wright 32:45
Definitely. At A.G. Richardson and Louisa High because I mean, I'm doing pretty good now, but I just think about if I had just taken full advantage of the education itself, you know, where I could be or what I could be doing. So yes, I would definitely I would have done better with my studying especially.
Vernon Fleming 33:14
Well, that's all I have. I want to thank you for participating for sharing and this concludes the formal portion of interview so thank you.
Robert Wright 33:23
I appreciate it.
Vernon Fleming 33:29
Karleen will need you to sign a release form.
Robert Wright 33:31
Okay.
Vernon Fleming 33:32
And also she-
So good afternoon and this is a video recording for the Freedom of Choice Remembrance Project. The date is Wednesday, February 17 2021. And I'm talking with Mr. Robert Steve Wright, who was a member of the inaugural class that integrated Louisa County High School in 1965. So welcome.
Robert Wright 00:27
Thank you.
Vernon Fleming 00:28
And what I want to do is kind of talk with you about your experiences back in 1965, and integrating Louisa County High School, but first I want to start with what was the forces that led you to make that decision to attend Louisa County High School?
Robert Wright 00:45
Well, they had asked for volunteers, and-
Vernon Fleming 00:49
Who were they?
Robert Wright 00:52
I would say probably the PTA at the Black schools. And to be honest, I don't really know. I would say probably Mr. Thompson might have been part of it because I know his daughter-
Vernon Fleming 01:09
Mr. John Thomasson?
Robert Wright 01:10
Yeah. And so as I mentioned to you later on the telephone, earlier in our telephone conversation my nephew, William Mason.
Vernon Fleming 01:22
Yeah.
Robert Wright 01:23
The son of Earlena Mason and we were both born on the same day, but I would always let him push me into things. He was coming so he encouraged me to come over with him. And so I did.
Vernon Fleming 01:36
Okay.
Robert Wright 01:37
But it wasn't like... I think some people thought that the smartest of the groups, or, you know, the smart ones came over, but that wasn't the case. I was not a smart person. I just came over.
Vernon Fleming 01:53
I know that's true.
Robert Wright 01:57
But it's almost like my experience in the army. You know, some of it you might not have enjoyed, but after it's over you're glad you went through it. But I don't feel like it was really... When you consider some of the other southern states, some of the other things, I don't feel like it was that bad, even though we did have a few negative issues, but it could have been worse.
Vernon Fleming 02:25
Okay, now think back to that first day. Did you ride the bus to school? Or?
Robert Wright 02:29
Yes, I rode the bus. William used to tease me about that. He said when I was standing in the hall waiting on, you know, instructions on where we should go and waiting on him. And he said that when he came in I had a pencil in my mouth that I had chewed it up because I was scared. You know, he would always like to make a joke about everything.
Vernon Fleming 02:57
So did you get on the bus early on the route or lter on route and did you have a problem getting a seat?
Robert Wright 03:05
The bus that I rode- the way it was for me. It was one bus, the lady's name was Miss Hawkins. And she would pick me up in the house then come right here to this elementary school and then I would transfer over on to another bus to go down to the high school. I don't remember that drivers name. Now on that bus, Miss Hawkins', I was the only Black. And on that second bus, Margie Lucas was someone there with us. And I hope Margie doesn't get mad with me, but she was so light I couldn't even (overlapping) I found a spot with her (unclear)
Vernon Fleming 03:49
She was here this morning.
Robert Wright 03:51
Yeah.
Vernon Fleming 03:53
So as far as seating, you always had a seat, you didn't have any problems with others?
Robert Wright 03:59
Not on my bus.
Vernon Fleming 04:00
Okay.
Robert Wright 04:00
Not on my bus.
Vernon Fleming 04:02
Would whites sit beside you?
Robert Wright 04:04
Yeah, occasionally. The only thing, on that one of the buses is that occasionally somebody would throw spit ball at you. Because they would be behind me. But you know, I'm 71 years old now and when I look back kids will be kids, you know, so it was no big deal. At least it was anything but a spit ball, or a piece of paper.
Vernon Fleming 04:29
Now that first day when you got to the school and I know you had been in Richardson for your eighth, ninth, tenth grade years. What was the big difference that you saw between entering Richardson on the first day of school versus Louisa County High School.
Robert Wright 04:46
One of the things is in Richardson you you had to run and hide in the bathroom or somewhere to take a smoke, but they had a designated spot for the guys in Louisa, where you could go out and smoke. And of course, they didn't let- It was weird, they wouldn't let the girl smoke, but they would let the guys. It was a special area of where we could go and smoke. Some of the other things that I noticed that, for instance, I never had to do a book report at Richardson, that was sort of new. I remember Mrs. Layman, bless her heart, we had to memorize the Gettysburg Address. And but what she did, I guess she felt like we might be nervous or some so she would let us come to the class early to recite it, but...
Vernon Fleming 05:51
Meaning?
Robert Wright 05:53
Well see William and I, we pretty much all of our classes we stuck together.
Vernon Fleming 05:56
Okay.
Robert Wright 05:58
William was in literature or English, but she allowed us to come early to give our... Another thing about back then, I don't know if they still have it, I guess it's in the libraries. We had to read this book, you remember Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn? And it had the n-word in it and it looked like she really hated that sentence, or that word was in there. But you know, it was nothing she could do, but she was a real nice lady I thought, Mrs. Lehmann.
Vernon Fleming 06:33
I remember her well.
Robert Wright 06:34
Oh, you remember her?
Vernon Fleming 06:34
Well she was our neighbor in my community. So going back to that first day, probably 90% of school was white, did you feel intimidated at all?
Robert Wright 06:53
Not really. I just looked around, and nobody bothered me and I guess they would glance at me, but I'm thinking that they probably the whites were prepared for it. And they probably had been advised on how to handle themselves also because nobody gave us any trouble on that first day.
Vernon Fleming 07:23
So you shared all your classes with William Mason.
Robert Wright 07:26
Yep. Yes.
Vernon Fleming 07:28
And what about Margie and Joe Morris, were also classmates or in the same year group (overlapping)
Robert Wright 07:35
I remember Joe, being in the French class with me. I think this is in our senior year. Ah, I can't remember if Margie was in anything with me or not. And Joe and I were on the basketball team in our junior year and Joe was more or less first string. And I made the first string good by being on the second.
Vernon Fleming 08:03
Before, we’ll talk about basketball in just a moment; we're trying to at least touch on a few things, and I had a thought that left me, that happens a lot these days. So we talked about the bus ride, we talked about your kind of first day, first impression of the school. As far as being a junior, and when folks make decisions career wise. Did you recall any conversation with a school counselor about your post graduation plans or taking college SATs?
Robert Wright 08:40
I don't recall but I believe it was Mrs. Martin, the principal's wife. And I don't remember her discussing anything, but I do remember after I graduated and came back from the army, a lady by the name of, a teacher, Miss Woodward. She was connected with the Woodward funeral home, and she gave me some advice as far as you know, going to college and everything. But as far as couseling, I can't remember receiving any direct counseling. I think I mentioned to you earlier. I took academic courses like biology, chemistry. I didn't need those courses. But I was following my buddy William, my nephew. I really should have taken you know, commercial courses. But anyway, we made it through in some kind of way.
Vernon Fleming 09:44
Do any students stand out to you that you would deem friendly back then, like white students.
Robert Wright 09:53
Okay, yeah. Some of the names that jumped out at me is like Dwight Rigsby, Steve Montgomery.
Vernon Fleming 10:03
What did they do that made you feel that they were friendly?
Robert Wright 10:07
Well, you know, they would just have conversation with us. And also, Clyde Johnson, he passed away, I went to his family gathering about a year ago. But those three come to my mind. And, of course, back in those days, you had to kind of be careful how friendly you were with the females. Because that wasn't accepted. Of course you see it all the time nowadays, but back then you had to watch yourself in the way you handle yourself around white females, but no, I remember like, they were nice, like Pam Henderson. Well, let's see-
Vernon Fleming 11:01
Dr. Richardson now.
Robert Wright 11:02
Yeah, she was really nice. At the last reunion we had I mentioned to her I hated it, because if she hadn't been so smart, getting these hundreds, I probably could have got a curve on some of that. But she was really nice.
Vernon Fleming 11:22
Okay. On the other spectrum, do you have any memories of anyone being not friendly?
Robert Wright 11:32
I didn't take it- I know several guys like teasing, especially when they were around others trying to be funny, they would use the n-word. Do you want me to give names or just...
Vernon Fleming 11:50
Whatever you're comfortable with.
Robert Wright 11:50
But, you know, I played with them, even though while I kid back with them like that. One was a fella by the name of Dennis McDonnell. And it was several of them who would just throw that word out at you. And but again, it was nothing that we would get to fighting over or anything like that. It was just one of those things.
Vernon Fleming
Now, you mentioned Mrs. Layman was kind of friendly towards you and sensitive to your situation. What about any other teachers that you say did some things that made you feel more comfortable?
Robert Wright
Don't know, this might have been my senior year, but it was a teacher there whose name was Colonel Phillips that taught algebra. And he told me one time it was like, you want to show that white man that you can excel. I mean, now he's white, but he's telling me to prove that I can excel. My mind goes back to that I thought that was, you know, real good advice from him. Because there were times when I would act unruly. He was trying to encourage me about my studies and so forth. And he just say, you need to show that white man what you can do.
Vernon Fleming 13:17
Any teachers that you felt we're not treating you fairly?
Robert Wright 13:26
For the most part, I do remember one instance in French class. I think, I know she did. Her name was Mrs. Keller. And we were taking the test and I think one of the kids told her that I was cheating. And so she came over and actually did lift up my papers because she thought I had, we used to called the “pony”, but I didn't have it, or have one. I don't hold that against her because she was just probably being influenced by what somebody else had told her.
Vernon Fleming 14:07
During unstructured time, lunchbreak, study hall, were you able to sit with other folks or whites or interact with him during that call it unstructured time.
Robert Wright 14:21
Most of the time William and I, and some of the others, we would pretty much in the cafeterias have our own little gatherings at the tables, and we didn't do that much intermingling at lunch. But when we would go outside to smoke then you know we would intermingle with conversation. Matter of fact, sometimes I would bum a cigarette off a white, but basically in study hall, again, we stuck together.
Vernon Fleming 15:00
Do you have any recollections of any administrators? Mr. Martin, the principal, any other teachers approaching you, asking you if you're okay or had any issues or need any help with anything?
Robert Wright 15:11
Well, Mr. Martin, he tried to help me one time. I remember reporting to him that I was kind of thinking someone had let the air out of my tire in my car, my brother's car, but it really didn't have to be that. But, he was concerned about that issue. I don't know if you're going to get to this later on, and I remember one time I did upset him. This was the time when I told you about I hit the man, the guy, young man.
Vernon Fleming 15:51
Tell us again about it.
Robert Wright 15:54
William, he had a rough time on his bus. I think it was the Gordonsville bus. And you know, the kids wouldn't let him sit down and he would somewhat receive harassment. So one day, I decided to, I had Russell King and Charles, this was the second year….
Vernon Fleming 16:16
Yeah.
Robert Wright 16:17
And we rode the bus with William and everything was quiet. So I said, "William, where are all these people that's been given you these problems," you know. And nobody said anything, so when we got off the bus, that's when everybody started mouthing, some of them. And I kind of walked back towards the bus and the guy got back up on the bus they took off. And so after that, they made a rule that you couldn't ride any other bus, you had to ride your own bus. So that's the way that was taken care. But also, William had complained about a guy giving him trouble on that bus, so I hauled off one morning, you know, you would meet in the gym, I mean, in the auditorium before the classes start. And I hit a guy. And William went and told me was the wrong guy. But Coach Smith, he came in and got me and took me to Mr. Martin. And I got suspended. And mama had to come back with me to get me back in and so Mr. Martin said, "I don't know what the hell Robert think's he is doing." My sisters used to laugh at me because my older sister, Earlena, she came with Mama to get me back in so we got on track. But you know, again, Mr. Martin was really a nice guy. But I think that, you know, he's probably under pressure to because they had to make sure that we were treated right. As well, as he didn't want, I guess, to fight parents on his case, either. But, so he was probably in between, sort of like under pressure himself. But overall, he was a nice guy.
Vernon Fleming 18:13
So how long were you out of school?
Robert Wright 18:15
Just one day.
Vernon Fleming 18:16
Okay, not bad. But it was the wrong guy.
Robert Wright 18:19
Wrong guy.
Vernon Fleming 18:21
Okay.
Robert Wright 18:22
You know how they had, and I'm not sure, I think I told you I was going to look it up some day, I tried to find it. But you know how the seniors would have a will and this so and so leaves his so and so. And they said Robert Wright leaves a switchblade to whatever that guy’s name was.
Vernon Fleming 18:38
I want to shift gears slightly from when you entered the school to at least your two years at the school, did you feel that you were equal to the whites? And looking at two ways, both from an intellectual standpoint (unclear) not have been the smartest, but do you feel that you were able to compete intellectually and also from an economic standpoint, do you feel that your family's economic means were comparable to the average white student?
Robert Wright 19:13
No, not economically, because one thing my father passed away a week before President Kennedy was assassinated. So my mother had to raise me and those were some rough times for us. And my father did farm work and the people that he worked for, didn't take out social security for him. And I guess it was his fault, too, because he should have probably pursued that. So as a kid, after my father passed, I was 14, I never got a check like other kids from whose parents had passed on like that. So economically, I wasn't. Now, on the other hand, even when I was at Richardson, I was not a great student. Studying was not my thing. Basically, I loved basketball with a passion and I needed someone to just tell me "Hey, you're short, you're not going to make any basketball team". And even if they had told me, I don't think I would have received it. So I didn't give a lot of attention to books and studying. So I look back on it, it wasn't that I wasn't able, I didn't have the brains. It's just that I didn't apply myself at either school like I should have.
Vernon Fleming 20:40
So during your junior year, senior year when you're at Richardson, you'd be going to homecoming dance, prom and parties on Friday nights. Now when you went to Louisa, those were still going on, but did you have a desire to attend any of those with your white classmates?
Robert Wright 21:00
Yes, we went. In the junior and senior year, we went to the proms. And for a while there was some talk I think, as a matter of fact, that's one of the things that William told me that one of the guys on his bus said we can't have a prom because you guys are here. But they did have the prom and we did go. But I guess that for a while they were debating as to whether they would have a prom because of our attendance. But we did have a prom and William I went to both of them.
Vernon Fleming 21:32
Okay, what about homecoming dances? And what about like Friday night dances?
Robert Wright 21:36
I never did attend any of those. I didn't even try to.
Vernon Fleming 21:40
Why not?
Robert Wright 21:43
One thing I wasn't a dancer, I guess. At that stage, too, on Fridays on weekends, a lot of times I had other things to do. So I never really tried to go to a homecoming dance or any of that.
Vernon Fleming 21:58
Okay, do you think you would have been welcomed? Or would you have been able to go if you had a desire to?
Robert Wright 22:04
I think that some would have maybe been okay with it. But I do think that you know, when you're out like that you would have certain groups that would have probably tried to start some issues. Because I remember, this was at the farmer's fair one year. I'm trying to think if I was still in high school, but I remember a bunch of young whites and I could call one of the names now, they were walking around singing the Old Rugged Cross, and you knew what that was about, even though it was a religious song but you know why they were singing that. So, you had groups that, or a group that would probably give you some problems along those lines had I been out, so I guess in some instance I'm glad I didn't try to go to any of these things alone.
Vernon Fleming 23:03
Now were you involved with any school clubs or any extracurricular activities at Richardson whether it be newspaper, yearbook staff, Future Farmers of America, any of those activities? And I'm leading up to did you join anything at Louisa County High School, if so, or not, why not?
Robert Wright 23:27
No, I did not. The only thing I did, like I said I mentioned the basketball team, I went out for the football team one year, but they practice during the summer and I hadn't attended so the coach didn't feel like it would have been fair to the other players for me to just get on the team and they had worked hard that summer. And I understood that. Also, and getting back to basketball, I couldn't understand in our junior year why they made us wait. We had to wait about two or three months before we could play or participate and that that was kinda weird-
Vernon Fleming 24:22
Was there any explanation given?
Robert Wright 24:25
I didn't ask for one. I do remember was Steve, and I don't want to take anything away from Steve Montgomery, he was a nice guy. But he had transferred from Richmond and he got to play right away. I think we asked him about it but he didn't know either, if he knew he didn't want to deal with it. But I don't think he really knew. But then again he probably did like we did figure, but they made us wait.
Vernon Fleming 24:53
Okay, now looking at basketball, as you went to other schools did you encounter any issues?
Robert Wright 25:01
Yes.
Vernon Fleming 25:01
Playing at other schools? Share those with us. Okay. Any other remembrances that you had, good or bad, on the team?
Robert Wright 25:03
Yeah, it was Fluvanna High School, and me and one of the guys on the team, white guys, Andy Woolfolk, we went out and when we came back in somebody in the crowd said, "Hey, they got a nigger with them." And I just kept walking there. So Coach Woolfolk, he said, "Robert, did they give you a hard-" he just laughed, "Did they give you a hard time out there, Robert?" But of course, you know, I wasn't gonna go up in the crowd at an away game and mess with anybody and try to defend myself on that. And it really didn't bother me. Well, it wasn't a racial type thing, but it was an embarrassing thing. We had Powhatan beaten, and the coach put the second string in and we blew it, we let them come back and win the game. That was embarrassing to me. But you know, it had nothing to do with any type of racial problem, just one of those things when we blew the game.
Vernon Fleming 26:27
As you entered the Louisa County High School, granted you left friends at Richardson, as you encountered them, both students or adults, did any of them make comments about you attending Louisa County High School and what were the comments?
Robert Wright 26:44
Some of them seem to be somewhat resentful. On occasion, I remember one time, because for Louisa, sometimes the guys would wear a necktie to the games. And then, so on that particular night, I went, after we finished the duties, I went over to Richardson and I still had the tie on and somebody just said something about that. But you know, it's my necktie, it's my shirt, leave me alone. But it wasn't a lot of resentment. But yes, a few things you might just remember from time to time as you go back in your mind about it.
Vernon Fleming 27:33
Can you think of adults in the community, be it in the church or others, anyone ever asked about your experiences that first and second year?
Robert Wright 27:43
I don't remember that. I don't think they did. Now that you mentioned. Interesting. Looking back, did you ever have any doubts about staying after that first year? Did you ever think about going back to Richardson? I did not. I wanted to stick with it. Now, I shared this with you, because of the harassment that we had received, I remember after he passed, and also, before his mother passed I used to... My home was over in the Ellisville area, but I would go down 208 and my sister lived on one of those streets off 208 and I would stop by and holler at her. And we were chatting about William, because William had some health issues. And a lot of people didn't realize it, but William was on medication for his mentality. And she felt like that William could have had that problem because of some of the things that he faced on that bus. And she told me that out of her own mouth that William told her, he asked her could he go back to Richardson, but she encouraged him to hang in there. But at one time it got so bad for him he wanted to go back.
Vernon Fleming
And going through that, being in Louisa County High School, being a minority, extreme minority. How do you think that impacted your life for the better or for worse, having experienced that integration?
Robert Wright
I think it was a good thing because after I got out the army, of course in the army, a Sergeant will say all of you are green. But when I got out of the army, I got this job later on at State Farm. Well, it was a white environment, predominantly. And being in that mixed school, you know, in the midst of the school, like you said, with, I guess, 90 to 99% predominantly white, at State Farm it sort of helped me to deal with things that we had to go through there. So I'm glad I did it. And I believe it did help me.
Vernon Fleming 30:21
Okay. Do you have much contact with white classmates now?
Robert Wright 30:28
Very little. We have had several class reunions, and I think I attended each one of them and attended some of them and it was just good seeing everybody and nobody seemed to be, you know, we just... How you doing? And that was it. Yeah. And several of them I said the grace and said the prayer also.
Vernon Fleming 31:01
Good. Is there anything that you would like to share that I didn't ask because I know, we didn't want to cover too much ground, but we want to make sure we capture stuff that's important to you.
Robert Wright 31:13
Well, one of the things, and I remember making the statement at my church to some of the Black kids to remind them don't take your education lightly. I mean, when you think about the things like what we did, and others before and you go to school and act like a clown and act silly, you know. You need to take advantage of what you have and the opportunities. Because the same white guy that you laugh at, had his plaid pants laid on, he's gonna be loaning you money, you know what I'm saying? So you need to, and at the Black high school, the teachers, they were more concerned about you, but some of the white teachers, they might want to push you along and encourage you. So you need to think about what you're doing. Also, as I mentioned with my opening statement, when you really look at it I think that it was not a real bad experience when we compare to what the kids went through in Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia, so I'm just thankful to the Lord. If I had to go do it again, I would.
Vernon Fleming 32:41
Would you behave differently, would you do things differently?
Robert Wright 32:45
Definitely. At A.G. Richardson and Louisa High because I mean, I'm doing pretty good now, but I just think about if I had just taken full advantage of the education itself, you know, where I could be or what I could be doing. So yes, I would definitely I would have done better with my studying especially.
Vernon Fleming 33:14
Well, that's all I have. I want to thank you for participating for sharing and this concludes the formal portion of interview so thank you.
Robert Wright 33:23
I appreciate it.
Vernon Fleming 33:29
Karleen will need you to sign a release form.
Robert Wright 33:31
Okay.
Vernon Fleming 33:32
And also she-
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2021 February 17thContributor: